Hybrids
November 27th, 2006 by Jim VIn a previous post, Northern Farmer said “Go buy the high priced seed that produces a crop that nothing can eat, yea you heard me, feed that GMO corn to some hogs and see how well they do. Or GMO soybeans where the testing labs over in Europe found that second generation rats were all dying from eating it.†This got my mind ruminating on the extent of GMO use in my area and the fact that virtually all corn that is grown is hybrid corn. I called and talked to a friend who is a farmer and who runs a feed mill. I asked him what percentage of corn grown in my area is GMO corn, either roundup ready corn or liberty corn (I think I got this one correct). He thought that around two-thirds of the corn and soybeans grown in our area is GMO. I don’t know of a feed mill in my area that bothers to keep GMO grains separate from non-GMO grains. So anyone eating any conventionally grown corn or soy product is probably eating GMO grain.
In my ruminations, I recalled reading somewhere that hybrid corn does not pick up all the trace minerals that OP corn does. I managed to find this information in a book called “Eco-Farmâ€, by Charles Walters and C.J Fenzau. The following excerpt is from page 38 of this book:
“Adolph Steinbronn of Fairbanks, Iowa put the matter in perspective by having two samples of corn tested for ingredients usually added to commercial feeds. One was a sample of hybrids he had grown. The other was OP corn. The OP corn contained 19% more crude protein, 35% more digestible protein, 60% more copper, 27% more iron and 25% more manganese.
Compared to 4,000 samples of corn tested in ten Midwest states in a single year, Steinbronn’s OP corn contained 75% more crude protein, 875% more copper, 345% more iron, and 205% more manganese. The same trend has been seen in the content of calcium, sodium, magnesium and zinc. It can therefore be said that OP corn could contain an average of over 400% more of these nutrients.
Ernest M. Halblieb of McNabb, Illinois confirmed the failure of hybrid corn to uptake certain mineral nutrients. In comparing Krug OP corn and a hybrid in the laboratory of Armour’s Institute of Research, Chicago, spectrographic testing revealed the hybrid short of nine minerals. The hybrid failed to pick up cobalt and any other trace minerals. Both varieties had the same chance to pick up a balanced ration.
The reason I mentioned cobalt, “wrote Halblieb, “is that we found (on the 16 farms in test) that no hybrid picked up cobalt, and in all the tests the hybrid was short seven to nine minerals, always exhibiting a failure to pick up cobalt.â€
The core of vitamin B-12 is cobalt. Ira Allison, M.D., and others have found that a lack of cobalt is implicated as a cause of brucellosis and undulant fever, and cobalt is part of the cure.
In the opinion of many eco-farmers, hybrid corn merely masks poor farming by producing bins and bushels without the nutrient goodies that are really corn’s reason for being.â€
I know which type of corn that I want to feed to my family and my livestock, but unfortunately the only farmer I know growing it is about 150 miles to the north.
November 28th, 2006 at 6:43 am
Well we got some 800 miles south if you need it
. The only thing I’ve had a problem with the OP stuff so far is it seems to need water. After going 90 days without rain, the yields seem to decrease 
The nutrient stuff is good to know, but the bottom line for me is its a lot cheaper per acre to grow because I don’t have the seed costs every year. I can either make three trips through with the sprayer on the RR stuff, or three trips with my two row cultivator. A little more gas, but for me its worth it.
This year will be my second year with OP corn. Last year, the drought conditions down here about as bad as they can be. I’m anxious to see yeild results in a “normal year”
One more thing, I agree with your statements about GMO corn for food, but with the ethanol boom just around the corner, the GMO stuff might be just what the doctor ordered for fuel.
Have a GREAT day,
Brad
November 28th, 2006 at 6:57 am
That’s been our only problem with our OP corn too, lack of water, severe lack of water! But in the low lands where it could preform half way normal it was spectacular! Not taking a back seat to any hybrid.
The ethanol thing, industrial ethanol that, it will someday be exposed for what it really is, another deception. Takes more energy to produce it when everything is taken into consideration than it you get. I know people want to wish for pie in the sky, but the sad fact is, it don’t add up. And with population growing and growing the switch over to millions of acres of non food production should raise a red flag. Plus midwestern farms will be raising the perfect crops for keeping the corporations swimming in the money. While the farms become deserts.
This can be expanded into a huge post, this subject. I don’t have time right now, gotta get out there. But a person can rip apart the entire deception fairly easily.
November 28th, 2006 at 9:56 am
I think that some of the push to produce ethanol is based on the idea that we are running out of oil. Some things I have been reading on the internet, for example at http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47738, indicate that oil is an abiotic product produced in the earth’s mantle. This definitely calls into question the long term viability of the ethanol industry. If current ethanol production requires more energy to produce it than is yielded from the end product, the ethanol industry definitely cannot survive.
Jim V
November 28th, 2006 at 10:56 am
I hear you about the amount of energy it takes to produce corn ethanol. I’ve heard some companies are genetically modifying some strains to increase the starch content.
I was looking around at different sites after y’alls posts and it seems you have the “pie in the sky” pro-ethanol sites, and the “sky is falling” anti-ethanol sites. Its like trying to figure out an election year. Everyone spreads information tailored to make them sound good.
Since my head hurt for about a month after the election, I’m going to stick my head back in the sand and just raise the OP stuff for my goats.
Sometimes, I wish we could just get the real facts. AAARRRGGGHHHH.
Brad
ps. Jim V, I tried to read the article you posted, but it just came up a dead link.
November 28th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Brad,
Somehow I managed to add a comma to the URL - I never learned to type, my 8 year old probably types better than I do. Here is the correct URL:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47738
Jim V
November 28th, 2006 at 6:02 pm
Some ethanol tidbits, OK?
The average corn yield in the U.S. is 139 bushels to an acre.
Average ethanol production from a bushel of corn is 2.5 gallons, which means an acre would yield about 350 gallons of ethanol.
The fuel value of ethanol is two thirds that of gasoline, it takes 1.5 gallons to equal a gallon of gasoline.
It takes a lot of input energy to produce ethanol, for fertilizer, harvesting, transport, corn processing, etc.
After subtracting the input, the net positive energy available is less than half of the figure sited above.
Some researchers even claim that the net energy of ethanol is actually negative when “all†the inputs are included.
Here’s where it gets interesting!
Allowing a positive energy output of 30,000 BTUs per gallon, it would still take four gallons of ethanol “from corn†to equal one gallon of gasoline.
The entire U.S. corn crop would supply only 3.7% of our auto and truck transport demands. If we use the entire 300 million acres of U.S. cropland for “corn†based ethanol, production would meet about 15% of demand… now that’s “every acre†in the U.S. that is used for food production!!
These are University figures, not mine. But I wanted to post this so a person can see “industrial ethanol†solves nothing at all. Now, home based production is a different story, because energy sources could be used at the same time to heat our homes, the mash could be fed to critters with very little if any energy required to do it. One can see even with the “promiseâ€, (I call em lies), from the GMO monster makers even doubling or tripling ethanol production from some monster corn wouldn’t make much of a dent in displacing petroleum. Plus the added fact that millions of acres would be taken out of food production, but then again we can always import food, eh. Plus the added fact that the only ones making money would be the multi national companies.
November 28th, 2006 at 7:11 pm
So if Ethonol is a no go…then what ?
GMO corn..it’s not just for breakfast anymore
November 28th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
Patti,
I didn’t cut and paste that, didn’t even look for it on the internet. That was from the most recent publication of Seed Savers, down your way. I wish ethonal would be a go, but it just doesn’t add up no matter which way I look at it as far as the industrial version. The article goes on to say about Brazil and how different their situation is compared to ours, they can use cane which is much more efficient. Also they have a fraction of the total usage that this country does. We do have to admit that we are energy hogs in this country in comparison to the rest of the world. No way around that. It’s sad when people think it’s a God given right to waste so very much.
November 29th, 2006 at 6:00 am
Hi Jim and Tom!
Well, winter is definitely here and it’s heading your way. We’ve gotten light snows and strong winds with dropping temps. It’s supposed to get much colder thru the next few days.
Jim, I certainly agree with you that raising and teaching our children about God’s love and His plan for our lives is the most important duty parents could ever have. I honor and respect your views and how you express your faith.
I most definitely agree with both of you that modern Ag Corporations are doing some extremely immoral and threatening business practices all in the name of greed. I also agree with the loss of nutrient values in modern ag crops. I even agree that modern ag has done some monsterous things with there control and development of hybrid seed and the extreme threat of GMO seed. However, as a student of biology, I’d like to point out that the term ‘hybrid’ in and of itself is neither good or bad. The term ‘hybrid’ is just the crossing of two or more varieties. If Tom crosses a hereford cow with an angus bull, the ‘black whiteface’ calf is a hybrid. If I plant my Lincoln peas too close to my ‘Wando’ peas and they cross pollinate, the seeds are hybrids My point is that just because a plant is labelled a ‘hybrid’ doesn’t necessarily mean that is bad or unhealthy. I am personally working towards saving my own seed so open pollinated seed stays much more true to form. Replanting saved hybrid seeds show a very wide range of characteristics, many of which are undesirable.
My second point is about your suggestion that we are not facing an energy crisis because of what you read about ‘abiotic oil’. Even if —and that’s a really big IF—oil is produced abiotically making it renewable, it is not geologically renewed at a rate that has any impact at all with our present rate of global oil consumption. There is a web site called ‘The Oil Drum’ http://www.theoildrum.com that is a technical forum populated with oil company insiders, college professors, geologists and other educated and technical professionals that publish and then discuss facts, figures, charts and graphs way beyond my ability to absorb and understand. They rip both ethanol production for fuel and the concept of abiotic oil up down and sideways.
As for Patti’s comment “if not ethanol, then what?”
I totally agree with Tom’s comment. We have no God given right to waste so very much. The US oil production peaked in 1970 and is now producing only half of what it did. The North Slope of Alaska peaked in 1989. The North Sea off England peaked in 1998 and Norway a couple of years ago. Mexico peaked a couple of years ago and is dropping by over 10% a year. There is much speculation that the globe is at or near peak production as well.
Global oil production has hit a plateau this year at 84.5 billion barrels of oil a day while world demand continues to grow. It doesn’t matter when the world oil production peaks. But it matters greatly when global oil supply cannot keep up with demand. In case you haven’t been following global oil prices, they’ve gone up from around $20 per barrel to $60-$70 per barrel in under 4 years.
Third world countries by the score can’t afford these energy prices which has led to blackouts, shortages, protests and riots rarely reported by the MSN–mainstream media. Increasing energy prices is also increasing the cost of everything that is transported from one place to another. Many third world countries can’t afford to import the food they need to keep many of their people from starving.
I object to burning food for transportation on Biblical, moral and ethical grounds. Plus, as Tom pointed out, it will in no way allow us to continue our happy motoring way of life. I read somewhere that the food and energy equivalent of filling one tankful of ethonal in a duel fuel SUV would feed one person for one year. Not to suggest that the food would magically appear before the starving masses.
So to answer Patti’s question “then what?” I can’t tell any of you what to do. From my point of view, you are all well on your way towards changing your lives by connecting and reconnecting with God’s Word and God’s Creation. Becoming aware of the evils of our present culture is also very important. Working towards local, natural, sustainable and healthy food and energy sources as well as connecting with your local community is also incredibly important.
And most of all TRUST God, trust God, trust God. He has a plan for our good and not for harm.
May God bless you all thru these stormy times!
November 29th, 2006 at 6:45 am
Wow, now that’s a good comment, and Jim forgive me for commenting so much on your thread, but I can’t help it
Steven, the one thing that should be mentioned to clarrify some things is the difference between hybrids and crosses as they are used in modern agriculture. I didn’t know this till late summer or early fall when JM was here at the farm and explained to me the terms. And JM knows the modern seed companies, believe me! I won’t get this anywhere near right but will attempt anyhow. What you describe Steven would be called a cross. Most OP varieties of corn that are available now are a cross from years back, I know MN 13 is and probably Rieds Yellow Dent, crossed and developed by farmers and even universities. Twenty, thirty years ago in the seed corn catalogs they always had some two way, three way and four way crosses for sale, most of the time a bit cheaper than the hybrids. The right cross could be planted again. With modern hybrids it’s a different story. I know I’ll screw this up but when has that ever stopped me. Gee I wish JM was lurking!! And this is not about GMO corn, OK?
It’s something like a strain is taken for multiple generations and inbreed to itself time after time, under very controled conditions. After years it’s crossed with another that was raised the same way and the results are explosive. No, that ain’t coming out quite right, hmmm. I’ll have to see if I can whip up JM in the next couple days so he can explain it here. Or if anyone else whom is good with words knows how to get it across, have at it.
But anyway, crosses can be done by farmers and hybrids are very difficult for farmers to create.
November 29th, 2006 at 7:01 am
Hi Tom,
Thanks for the clarification! I’m sure we can find differing meanings for the same word from many sources. I’m guessing that Industral Agriculture has put a different meaning on their term ‘hybrid’ than the basic biological definition. And I certainly agree that GMO is really scary!!!!
8 below zero right now and windy! So put another log on the fire, this cold is headed your way!
November 29th, 2006 at 7:06 am
Steven,
Your meaning is correct, it’s just not how it’s used in industrial agriculture. Our baldies are hybrids, with that hybrid vigor to boot! I am hoping to roust up JM on this subject in the next few days because it’ll be an education if he has some time.
We’re still in the tropics here, 18 above!! Still can wear the Bermuda shorts!
November 29th, 2006 at 7:07 am
Oops. I just reread my big post. That should be 84.5 million barrels of oil per day—blushing…………….
The U.S. having 5% of the world’s population, consumes a quarter of the world’s oil production.
November 29th, 2006 at 11:06 am
Tom,
Comment all you want - in fact the more the better. I am definitely learning from the comments. Somehow I thought this post would stir up something, you just never know what.
Steven,
I appreciate your comments as well. I too have some Biblical and moral questions about the appropriateness of burning food for transportation - especially on the scale that we burn fuel for transportation. I suppose in the past the use of horses constituted burning what could become food for the sake of transportation, but now we are sure are doing this on a whole different scale and with a whole lot more waste. I would hate to see us exhaust our soils only because we want cheap fuel.
Anyone read any good books or material on GMOs. I see the Acres conference this next week is having Jeffrey Smith talk. He wrote a couple of books on genetically engineered foods. Maybe I will try to get his talks on CD or order his books from the library. When I talked to the friend who runs a feed mill he said something like “I assume that the seed companies have done some studies to determine the digestibility and animal performance on GMO grains.” I didn’t have the heart to tell him I thought the studies that were done showed that the GMOs caused problems. I will have to get more specifics so that I can respond to him.
Jim V
November 29th, 2006 at 12:04 pm
Ok so we have come to the conclusion we are oil hogs….so how do we ,other than regulating our own lives, change the system? What can each one of us do to make things different and I’m not talking about moving off to the woods and becoming an energy hermit…(course if one did that they would not be posting here eh?) How do we translate our knowlage into useable info that can make a difference?…. posting here is great but most times arent we “preaching to the choir”?
November 29th, 2006 at 12:30 pm
Regarding OP corn, I have an old (1920’s I think) pocket-sized corn guide from Jacques seed. It’s amazing the variety of OP corn that used to be offerred comercially, including our friend MN13! Keep the corn coming!
November 29th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
Jim,
Interesting about horses burning food for fuel. In reality the work horse era was mainly at the begining of the industrial age, a hundred years or so. Before that they releyed on oxen quite a bit. And when the oxen were to old to work, they ate them. Plus the draft animals gave back to the land in manure. I hear that there’s more horses in this country now than at any time in it’s history, and they’re eating and eating. Hmm, I’d better go harness up our hayburner and get it to contribute
Patti,
I always figured this place was like a group of folks sitting around an old fashion feed store and shooting the bull. Preaching to the chior, quite a bit. But I’ve gotten some big change ideas from the things written here by all sorts of folks. Any change happens at home first, where it counts the most. I want to continue this in a few days with some Biblical back up. I sure thank Jim for sparking it off!!
Brent,
I was thinking, MN13 was developed by the University of Minnesota and first distributed by the seed companies. Ah, the good old days when universities were working for the farmers. I doubt it, but are there any prices in that book. Dad was telling me when we first got the farm he could by Funks seed, two way cross for five bucks a bushel. And he thought they were rippin him off 
Oh, oh! I covet that booklet
November 29th, 2006 at 8:11 pm
Hey all,
Tom asked me to drop by and share my thoughts on this thread. This is really one of my favorite subjects. As a former seed company research agronomist, I have a bit of a handle on this one.
Hybrid corn is the result of cross pollinating 2 “inbreds.” Inbreds are strains of corn that have been self-pollinated for at least 7 generations. Once the inbreds “breed true” that is, they look the same every year after self-pollonating, then they are crossed, and the resulting seed is planted as a “hybrid.” This resulting plant is generally far superior to either of the parent inbreds. This is know as “hybrid vigor.”
The technique of hybridization in and of itself is not a bad thing in my opinion. I personally am developing my own inbreds and hope to produce a quisi-hybrid of my one some day. However, the problem is that the production of hybrids is owned solely by big ag, and therefore the motivation is only profit.
The following is an article from my newsletter which I have adapted here….
Corn is a fascinating crop to raise. It is most likely the most improved upon crop in all of creation. Man has been improving corn for hundreds of years. Since the 1920’s this improvement has been almost exclusively in the form of hybridiz ation.
For example, corn breeders over the past 60-80 years or so have done a fantastic job of creating a very uniform crop which responds well to high levels of nitrogen fertilizer, chemical weed control, mechanical harvesting and drying, and is designed to be transported thousands of miles, transferred from combine to grain dryer to grain bin, to semi-truck to rail car to barge to ship to processing plant. In fact, that is how most of the corn in the US is treated.
What corn breeders have not been selecting for, however, is taste, protein content, kernel softness, palatability, and nutritional content. The result is that most corn you see growing by the road is not all that good for the animals or people who eventually eat it. To top it all off, hybridization makes it nearly impossible for farmers to save seed from one corn crop to plan the next.
Before hybrid corn became popular, farmers used open pollinated (OP) corn. OP corn is much more diverse and variable than hybrid corn. Plants in a field of OP corn tend to be variable in height, leaf shape and even kernel color! It is this variability which I think makes OP corn actually better than hybrid corn. While it is true that OP corn generally (not always) yields less than hybrid corn. It is my belief that it is more palatable, and provides a wider array of nutrients to the animals, contributing to a more well-rounded diet, and ultimately, improved health. As an added benefit, OP corn seed can effectively be saved from year to year, saving farmers money in seed costs.
November 29th, 2006 at 8:32 pm
Here’s a second thought. After reading the comments There’s more I can say.
Yes, it would take a long time to explain. However, in a nutshell, think of this. There are zillions of corn genes. There are zillions of types of corn. Sweet corn, field corn, indian corn, popcorn, white corn, yellow corn, etc… When you hybridize, you are restricting the genes of the corn so that you get a very predictable plant. For example, 210 cm tall, ear at 103 cm off the ground, ears 23 cm long, 16 kernal rows, 85 days maturity, etc, etc… All of these are genetic qualities of the corn plant, which if harnessed through hybridization can be controlled and repeated again and again.
If you want to see the genetic diversity of corn, simply take any old cob of corn, hybrid, or not, and plant each kernal of that cob in a single row. You will have some plants that grow short, some tall, some 2 eared, 3 eared, etc… you will have a hodge podge of corn. Some of these will grow well in a drought some will not.
When you hybridize, you can focus on certain genes. Yield, stay green, rate of drydown, plant height, etc… As I mentioned in my previous post, most breeders select for those things the company can sell. Outward appearance things like yield, standability, etc… Taste, protein content, mineral uptake are not “saleable” and therefore are generally not selected for. YOu can thank yield competitions for that one…
Any farmer can cross anything they want simply by letting nature take it’s course and planting a mix of ears in a field in the spring. However, this is a far cry from truly OP corn.
OP corn is corn that is selected as a group. A set of ears with a total quality of traits that are desired. To be an op developer, one need only select ears from desirable plants that carry desired traits. (drought tolerance is a great one to work with). Then after you have collected 100 ears or so, shell them off and plant them in a block away from other corn. As they grow, eliminate the undesirables before pollination. then harvest what remains, and repeat annually, untill you have the quantity and quality you are looking for. Most OP developers devote thier lives to the project…
Thanks!
JM
November 29th, 2006 at 9:12 pm
Flash! I just found out that the way to avert a national “crisis” is to shop at a certian blogs “country store” Quick run tell all your friends……
November 30th, 2006 at 6:41 am
While were on the OP subject here. Does anyone know a place to get bulk OP corn? Looking at my seed stash after the drought this year, its…. well….lacking…
Thanks,
Brad
November 30th, 2006 at 6:58 am
JM,
WOW! First let me give you a big thank you for sharing this information with us all! It’s way more than I ever expected!! This should help many including me have a much, much better understanding of hybrid and OP corns. I mean, I kinda know the basics, but it’s good to learn the nitty gritty’s of the subject and this sure does that.
This’ll also help me explain to neighbors here how, for example, there can be an 87 day MN 13 on the market and a 102 day MN13 available. Through selection of the same parent stock. In fact one OP developer told me that corn always wants to lengthen it’s growing days. Well, not the corn, but the grower has that in him. By continually selecting for the largest cobs, which is traditional, the growing days start to lengthen.
This year I have a better handle on which way we go here as far as varieties. The 87 day Mn 13 was spectacular, matching any hybrid. Stands strong, the cobs are huge, many double cobded, both huge. The Wapsie Valley was very good, very drought resistant, but as you told me one time, tends to go down late in the season. Didn’t notice it at silage time, but it goes down a bit later. I’ll go back to planting a few acres of Krugs too, the silage yields are out of this world and if we ever have a decent growing year here, maybe it’ll mature and I can select some cobs to start to shorten the growing season down a bit.
Again, thanks for your input, I hated to bother you, but sometimes information is a powerful weapon. I think this information is appreciated by many readers! Thanks and God Bless!
Brad,
Yes I do, let me know what variety or varieties your thinking of and I’ll see what I can come up with. Can order Reids Yellow Dent and other long day corn from Ill. I’ll find the info later today. Have a good one, God Bless!
November 30th, 2006 at 7:27 am
Good Morning!
It’s nine below with a super calm wind. It’s really pretty outside if you can imagine such a thing.
I’d like to attempt to address some of Patti’s concerns about being ‘oil hogs’ and changing the system.
First, I am struggling with the choices that I make within my own life trying to balance them out with what I believe is taught from the Bible as compared to what our dominant society teaches. I can’t even answer these questions within my own life. Therefore, I certainly won’t make any attempt to tell you what is right or wrong within your own lives.
I believe that ‘changing the system’ is almost impossible because the system is based on self-centered greed and pleasures. To change the system would mean that the core values of self-centeredness would have to change to the teachings of Jesus to ‘love others’. After that change in core values then everything that is done and every dollar spend, is weighed as to whether it is doing good or harm to others.
Therefore, I believe that I need to measure my every choice especially concerning my energy consumption as to whether my choices are contributing to the resource wars happening all over the world; whether my choices are exploiting the labor and natural resources of the poor of this world; whether my choices are causing harm to God’s Great Creation.
Yes, I think that writing here is ‘preaching to the choir’ but then again, every choir I’ve ever known comes together to practice and to harmonize. I’ve learned soooooo much from Tom’s blog and from other Christian Agrarian blogs. There is much wisdom that we share. Even long established choirs gain new members. Rookie homesteaders can learn much from what we all share with each other.
The Bible says to let your LIGHT shine before all the world. Changing our own lives DOES change the world. One little light can be seen a longggggggggg way in a dark night. As world events get continually worse, the little lights that we shine will draw more and more people in search of hope and direction. Christian Agrarians can offer much practical lessons in country living skills to urban refugees—who by choice or disaster—will be searching for direction. Then, after providing physical assistance, opportunities will arise when we can share God’s loving words as well.
Patti, by the way, I resemble your comment about moving into the woods and becoming an energy hermit. Only I have internet access in my little, handmade log cabin. hehehe….
You ask how we can translate our knowledge into usable information that people can use. I think that each of us is already doing that by living the change that we wish the world to be.
I don’t believe it is possible to ‘change the world’ or ‘change the system’ because each is based on selfn-centered greed. Therefore, at some point in time, the ‘world’ and the ’system’ will be judged for its immorality.
I do believe that it is within each of our abilities to ‘feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and inprisoned’ people that enter our lives. And thereby fulfill God’s law by loving others.
Well, I guess I’m done ‘preaching to the choir’ for now.
Thanks JM for the explanation on Industrial Ag’s development of ‘hybrid’ seed. You explained it very well that even this ol’ hillbilly could understand!
May God’s love shine brightly thru the lives you live!
November 30th, 2006 at 9:01 am
I only wish I had joined the thread earlier. This is good!! I noticed a mention of ethanol on here as well, and since in weighing in, well… In my opinion, ethanol may just be the worst farce ever employed against the american farmer. If every single bushel of corn grown in the US went into ethanol, it would supply only 13-15% of our nations total need.
I don’t claim to understand the whys behind the promotion of ethanol, but it is a ruse. The first farmer to sign a contract with an ethanol plant will get a VERY small premium for his corn. He’ll tell everyone, “Hey! I got $x.xx a bushel for my corn, Heh, heh.” (chest sticking out, big grin, dually pickup driving…) Then all the neighbors will want in and it will be right back to commodity pricing.
The solution is local, local, local. Local food, local (even homemade) energy production, local economies. I’ve said it again and again. we must form relationships (not just friendships, but business and commercial relationships) with likeminded folks in order to survive. The industrial-government solution will not be a solution we will enjoy…
JM
November 30th, 2006 at 9:47 am
Tom,
I can echo your wow. The comments are great and I am learning much.
Thank all of you for the comments.
JM,
Earlier in the thread, where Tom talked about ethanol production on the farm being a different matter in terms of economics, it occurred to me that our society has this inclination to apply the industrial model everywhere. We apply it to food production, raising of children (daycare), education (government schools and colleges), and on and on. We have industrial model “on the brain”. You are right that the solution is local, local, local and maybe even some things need to be purely family or home economy based.
And speaking of likeminded folks, anyone attending the Acres conference in St. Paul next week? Looks like I will be attending with some of my children.
Jim V
November 30th, 2006 at 11:08 am
Steven, I agree…If your the light that is going to shine in the darkness..ya gotta strike yer own match first!!!
November 30th, 2006 at 12:08 pm
I think you are all right and that you do not have a good chance of changing the world or even this country but I think that we each have a very good chance of changing your local community one person at a time through relationships. As I see it one of the problems with todays society is that often you have so many relationships with so many people that you end up not having any meaningful relationships with anyone (the tv show with the most people watching in the 6:00 hr is not a real world news show but entertainment news, what celebrity is having a birthday, who is having a baby and what was worn by the celebritys at some awards ceremony) Looking at the pain that is inflicted on people, by there familys starting at a very young age, I do not blame people for not wanting a close nit family/community and now society looks down on you if you desire to have a close nit family/community making it a big but worthwhile job to have a close nit community. family/community
On the ethonal not being a sustainable energy option I have not see anyone mention the fact that there are not many more efficient ways of depleting soil fertility than to burn the crop that was grown on the land, at least if you feed the crops to an animal they produce manure.
November 30th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
I just finished up Josh Tickell’s “Biodiesel America” (it was reviewed in ACRES awhile back) and while biodiesel sounds like a wonderful alternative fuel , it seems riddled with just as many potential problems as ethanol. Tickell insists that we count up the full cost of petroleum fuels (including not just what we pay at the pump but all the environmental impacts etc.) Most people who go for biodiesel do so because it burns cleaner, better for the environment, not dependant of foreign oil and so on. That may be so at the end burning but what about the impact of growing all that biomass for the fuel in the first place? It is telling that some of the biggest finaciers of this alternative fuel are ArcherDaniels Midland and BP. Who really thinks that these guys have the environment in mind? Biodiesel seems like a fuel made to order for Monsanto . The crops that are being used the most right now for this fuel are soy and rapeseed (canola) . Monsanto supplies most of both in this country. What about the cost and environmental impact of millions of acres of Roundup Ready Soy and canola?(Which we have already actually) How is that any better for the environment? You still have mono crops , no diversity, tons of pesticides and herbicides. Is that all figured in to the final cost of biodiesel?
In Europe, biodiesel seems to be a much more local thing and makes a lot more sense. But with our fragmented system based on production for the masses, well, it just doesn’t add up. And biodiesel would only replace diesel, not gasoline.
I’m sorry for chiming in with something that has nothing to do with hybrids or ethanol but we were sort of talking about alternative fuels right??
I’ve much enjoyed this post. I’ll creep back to lurker mode again…
November 30th, 2006 at 4:38 pm
Nathan, We have a friend who is working with The local Ag. collage on feeding “feed lot beef” distillers grains ..or..what you have left after you make Ethonol..Their doing experiments to see how much actual food value is left after ethanol is produced. Doesnt’ sound to promising but it probably would be better than what they are feeding in the feed lots now……..
November 30th, 2006 at 6:54 pm
Nathan,
Sounds like you got your head on straight!! I pray more young folks start seeing like you do!
Merryrose,
Glad you came out of the lurker mode again! Do it more often, eh! Great input! Through this whole thread the main thing emerging is the unsustainability of industrial agri fuel production vs the local version. You know, for me to even talk against industrial ethanol and bio diesel is darn near blasphemy in the midwest! It’s one thing to talk about most of the things I do talk about, but these subjects are so brainwashed into the rural midwest population it’s unbelievable! It’s on every ag radio every day, in every ag paper, you name it. It’s supposedly going to save rural America. And it’s all a crock! Numbers don’t lie, and their fantasy don’t add up! Not even near it. Same as GMO’s, it’s just deception after deception. And EVERYTHING points back to the same handful of huge multi national ag companies, everything! They’ll supply all the inputs and take care of all the end product.
Thanks for the comment!
December 1st, 2006 at 9:57 am
Patti,
Feeding feed lot cows distillers mash sounds like a bad idea. To me it seems similar to what happened in the distiller dairies that fed cheap distillers mash to the cows around the turn of the 20th century. The milk from the cows was so pale that the farmers would add chalk to the milk to make it look more like real milk. The milk also made so many people sick that they started mandating pasteurization (real healthy milk kills bacteria) and now the people are so brain washed that it is still illegal to sell raw milk in most states when the real problem was that some farmers were trying to make a quick buck. And that leads you back full circle to the fact that the local community was braking down , the consumer not knowing the farmer. ( the distiller dairies where around New York city)
December 2nd, 2006 at 12:06 am
Jim (and all)
We are planning on attending at least some of the Acres USA conference… We’ll look for you!!
JM
December 2nd, 2006 at 6:24 pm
JM and Jim,
I’ll be expecting some reports posted around here about Acres! I can’t go, but then again I can’t go anywhere except church. But that’s OK with me.
Nathan,
Thanks for bringing that up!